Comments on: The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196 Where 'A Meeting of Minds' meets 'A Glorious Accident' Thu, 19 Aug 2010 11:49:37 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8 hourly 1 By: The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-189 The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 Tue, 18 May 2010 16:04:33 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-189 [...] The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 The continuation of yesterday’s post: “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Related posts:Twitter chatter: The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 1 The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 1 Buckle up... [...] [...] The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 The continuation of yesterday’s post: “Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Related posts:Twitter chatter: The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 1 The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 1 Buckle up… [...]

]]> By: Joseph Carrabis http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-151 Joseph Carrabis Thu, 07 Jan 2010 08:12:22 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-151 Somaie, thanks for reading and reaching out. I have no knowledge or experience in affiliate marketing. Perhaps others can offer you more. Joseph Somaie,
thanks for reading and reaching out. I have no knowledge or experience in affiliate marketing. Perhaps others can offer you more.
Joseph

]]> By: somaie http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-150 somaie Thu, 07 Jan 2010 04:53:31 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-150 I've used web analytics and search to target sites for affiliate marketiing but never had any luck. Maybe the tools or people weren't up th the task? Have your readers had any luck using online tools for this? I’ve used web analytics and search to target sites for affiliate marketiing but never had any luck. Maybe the tools or people weren’t up th the task? Have your readers had any luck using online tools for this?

]]> By: Career Assessment Manuals 1 & 2 - How To Find Your Best Career Match. | 7Wins.eu http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-148 Career Assessment Manuals 1 & 2 - How To Find Your Best Career Match. | 7Wins.eu Tue, 05 Jan 2010 15:31:56 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-148 [...] FIFA 10 Blog – Manager Mode – Authenticity Part 2: Player Development And Football Atmosphere | The Sports Game GuyCounseling FAQ « MemphisCounselorisland94.org » Nonprofit Board Management, Governance and Advice The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 | The Analytics Ecology [...] [...] FIFA 10 Blog – Manager Mode – Authenticity Part 2: Player Development And Football Atmosphere | The Sports Game GuyCounseling FAQ « MemphisCounselorisland94.org » Nonprofit Board Management, Governance and Advice The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part 2 | The Analytics Ecology [...]

]]> By: Joseph Carrabis http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-147 Joseph Carrabis Tue, 05 Jan 2010 09:19:47 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-147 Ms. Thayer, thanks for reading <a href="http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-144" rel="nofollow">parts 1</a> and 2 and posting a follow up on your <a href="http://www.trendingupward.net/2010/01/web-analytics-limitations-bright-future" rel="nofollow">Trending Upward</a> blog. I posted a <a href="http://www.trendingupward.net/2010/01/web-analytics-limitations-bright-future/comment-page-1/#comment-719" rel="nofollow">comment</a> there agreeing that analytics has a bright future and that that future will be determined by whatever environmental/ecologic pressures come into play. Thanks again for reading and posting. Joseph Ms. Thayer,
thanks for reading parts 1 and 2 and posting a follow up on your Trending Upward blog. I posted a comment there agreeing that analytics has a bright future and that that future will be determined by whatever environmental/ecologic pressures come into play.
Thanks again for reading and posting.
Joseph

]]> By: Trending Upward | Web analytics limitations … and a bright future http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-144 Trending Upward | Web analytics limitations … and a bright future Tue, 05 Jan 2010 03:50:46 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-144 [...] Carrabis’ fantastic posts – The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics part I and part II. If you haven’t read them already – do so. They are so thought-provoking and written [...] [...] Carrabis’ fantastic posts – The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics part I and part II. If you haven’t read them already – do so. They are so thought-provoking and written [...]

]]> By: It is the End of the Year as We Know It « Jim Sterne on eMetrics http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-111 It is the End of the Year as We Know It « Jim Sterne on eMetrics Sun, 20 Dec 2009 18:24:21 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-111 [...] Joseph Carrabis in his post called The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part One and Part Two. The premise? Web Analytics has let us down. The huge (promised) potential has simply not been [...] [...] Joseph Carrabis in his post called The Unfulfilled Promise of Online Analytics, Part One and Part Two. The premise? Web Analytics has let us down. The huge (promised) potential has simply not been [...]

]]> By: Joseph Carrabis http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-107 Joseph Carrabis Fri, 18 Dec 2009 13:42:57 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-107 (this is the comment I was going to leave on <a href="http://blog.immeria.net/2009/12/whats-holding-back-web-analytics-public.html" target="other" rel="nofollow">Stephane Hamel's Immeria Blog</a>) Howdy again, Adding to a comment made by <a href="http://blog.immeria.net/2009/12/whats-holding-back-web-analytics-public.html#comment-5747550051507890302" target="other" rel="nofollow">Hugh Gage</a> re analyst despondency; Two of the quotes I used in <a href="http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196" rel="nofollow">Part 2</a> are "I don't believe in WA anymore..." because clients haven't changed, the other that things haven't changed since 2003. These were exemplar quotes to me (the sentiment was profuse, those quotes captured it wonderfully) because I've been asking (since 2001) "What does web analytics <i>do</i>? Please show me repeatable examples of how web analytics a)saved money, b) increased profits, c) benefited morale, d) caused a rethink/redo of business practices, ..." (over time I included search in my questioning. With due respect to all WA folk, the question is much easier to answer in SA (search analytics)). Basically I was looking for some kind of "if x then y". If such didn't exist then I was at a loss as to why it was done. I mean, I can understand playing with numbers for fun. That I love to do. I also appreciate that my time, my company's time and my clients' time are precious. Experimenting for fun and profit I do either on my own time or with the client's express written permission and a mutual understanding of what and where the experimentation may yield/lead. Perhaps the latter is an understood truth in the online analytics world, I don't know. I accept that WA has benefited some companies, I only offer that it hasn't been demonstrated as a repeatable phenomenon. This is based on my experiences. I won't say all and definitely most of the clients we've had over the years all say something like "I get all these reports but nothing that tells me what to do with it". I also recognize and usually explain that the reports they're getting may <i>lead</i> to some actions but the methodologies involved in determining that path require very large numbers (sociologic large numbers, as in "enough people so that a behavioral change is propagated throughout that population and becomes dominant as a behavioral standard within that population) to produce reliably actionable results. I have no idea if others would agree with me that "you need large numbers to produce reliably actionable results" is an accurate description of taking traditional analytics tools/methods and getting that "if x then y" product I mentioned earlier and I'm quite open to being corrected. But that non-repeatability -- especially when best efforts are applied -- is psycho-emotionally debilitating. Perhaps the industry is too immature (a nod to Stephane's WAMM and any similar models I've not encountered yet, yes) to have repeatable methodologies surface. My opinion, though, is that such methodologies a) will appear, b) make themselves known and c) become widely adopted. They will appear and become known (the "history of technology" model demands it) and once recognized they will become adopted (ditto). Right now when I interview online analysts I learn that the majority of their engagements involve application/implementation methodologies, not actionable outcomes. In my research actionable outcomes were either mentioned in the negative or on the defensive. As long as the best training is training on how to guess best, large companies will employ industry top feeders and industry striations will be the rule. The only way to excel will be to associate oneself with a top feeder (as mentioned in <a href="http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196" rel="nofollow">Part 2</a> in the “Management pays attention to what they paid for, not what you tell them.” section). Once training becomes logic and method based, analysts will need to learn how to market themselves because everyone will be able to deliver the same results (+/- 2db). Consistency of results across all analysts carries its own demons; how will analysts differentiate themselves when all analytics produces comparable results? The discussion will perforce move to who can repeatably turn their results into actionable outcomes. Analysts will perforce need to speak the C-level language. It will be the only way to translate what they know into something management can do. Just my thoughts, folks. And loving the conversation, Stephane. (this is the comment I was going to leave on Stephane Hamel’s Immeria Blog)
Howdy again,
Adding to a comment made by Hugh Gage re analyst despondency; Two of the quotes I used in Part 2 are “I don’t believe in WA anymore…” because clients haven’t changed, the other that things haven’t changed since 2003.
These were exemplar quotes to me (the sentiment was profuse, those quotes captured it wonderfully) because I’ve been asking (since 2001) “What does web analytics do? Please show me repeatable examples of how web analytics a)saved money, b) increased profits, c) benefited morale, d) caused a rethink/redo of business practices, …” (over time I included search in my questioning. With due respect to all WA folk, the question is much easier to answer in SA (search analytics)). Basically I was looking for some kind of “if x then y”. If such didn’t exist then I was at a loss as to why it was done.
I mean, I can understand playing with numbers for fun. That I love to do. I also appreciate that my time, my company’s time and my clients’ time are precious. Experimenting for fun and profit I do either on my own time or with the client’s express written permission and a mutual understanding of what and where the experimentation may yield/lead. Perhaps the latter is an understood truth in the online analytics world, I don’t know.
I accept that WA has benefited some companies, I only offer that it hasn’t been demonstrated as a repeatable phenomenon. This is based on my experiences. I won’t say all and definitely most of the clients we’ve had over the years all say something like “I get all these reports but nothing that tells me what to do with it”. I also recognize and usually explain that the reports they’re getting may lead to some actions but the methodologies involved in determining that path require very large numbers (sociologic large numbers, as in “enough people so that a behavioral change is propagated throughout that population and becomes dominant as a behavioral standard within that population) to produce reliably actionable results. I have no idea if others would agree with me that “you need large numbers to produce reliably actionable results” is an accurate description of taking traditional analytics tools/methods and getting that “if x then y” product I mentioned earlier and I’m quite open to being corrected.
But that non-repeatability — especially when best efforts are applied — is psycho-emotionally debilitating.
Perhaps the industry is too immature (a nod to Stephane’s WAMM and any similar models I’ve not encountered yet, yes) to have repeatable methodologies surface.
My opinion, though, is that such methodologies a) will appear, b) make themselves known and c) become widely adopted.
They will appear and become known (the “history of technology” model demands it) and once recognized they will become adopted (ditto). Right now when I interview online analysts I learn that the majority of their engagements involve application/implementation methodologies, not actionable outcomes. In my research actionable outcomes were either mentioned in the negative or on the defensive.
As long as the best training is training on how to guess best, large companies will employ industry top feeders and industry striations will be the rule. The only way to excel will be to associate oneself with a top feeder (as mentioned in Part 2 in the “Management pays attention to what they paid for, not what you tell them.” section). Once training becomes logic and method based, analysts will need to learn how to market themselves because everyone will be able to deliver the same results (+/- 2db).
Consistency of results across all analysts carries its own demons; how will analysts differentiate themselves when all analytics produces comparable results?
The discussion will perforce move to who can repeatably turn their results into actionable outcomes. Analysts will perforce need to speak the C-level language. It will be the only way to translate what they know into something management can do.
Just my thoughts, folks.
And loving the conversation, Stephane.

]]> By: Joseph Carrabis http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-105 Joseph Carrabis Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:30:58 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-105 Howdy, Chris, My solution would be to first determine what kind of flowers could bloom with reasonable assurety with the amount of fertilizer I know I have. Next decide if those are the kinds of flowers I want to bloom. If yes, start planting and fertilizing. If no, go find more fertilizer, decide if I really want to be a gardener, accept being able to bloom less than or more than 100 <em>different</em> flowers in this season, determine if what I know I can bloom is acceptable if I get more fertilizer next season... I worked on dairy farms as a kid through my early college life. Never had to worry about not having enough fertilizer, only knowing where to spread it. Joseph Howdy, Chris,
My solution would be to first determine what kind of flowers could bloom with reasonable assurety with the amount of fertilizer I know I have. Next decide if those are the kinds of flowers I want to bloom. If yes, start planting and fertilizing. If no, go find more fertilizer, decide if I really want to be a gardener, accept being able to bloom less than or more than 100 different flowers in this season, determine if what I know I can bloom is acceptable if I get more fertilizer next season…

I worked on dairy farms as a kid through my early college life. Never had to worry about not having enough fertilizer, only knowing where to spread it.
Joseph

]]> By: Christopher Berry http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196&cpage=1#comment-103 Christopher Berry Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:30:42 +0000 http://www.theanalyticsecology.com/?p=196#comment-103 Yes. Kuhn. Axioms change. Yes. Alright - so somebody comes by with Pine. Maybe there's some new benefit of Pine that we don't know about. Like an oil. A leader should be willing to learn. If the merits of Pine versus Oak has been debated to death, and there is a whole raft (haha) of literature on it, they should be pointed to the literature: - "have you thought of all this"? - and they say "Yes, and the oil is the key". Then woot. Awesome. A Scientific Revolution ensues and we all know what that's like. (Or will). Problem is, so many people come with their pine, without any regard to what has been already debated. I doubt that they're pointed to the literature very often. And the cycle goes on and on, without any progress. Your main thrust is a point well taken. Leadership would solve my central concern around debates that really don't help the situation. We're in need of a very specific type of leader (and you certainly opened up a can of whoop-ass here). Incorporation of all points of view - yes. I'll accept that. How to ensure there's enough fertilizer for 100 flowers to bloom? Yes.

Kuhn. Axioms change. Yes.

Alright – so somebody comes by with Pine. Maybe there’s some new benefit of Pine that we don’t know about. Like an oil. A leader should be willing to learn.

If the merits of Pine versus Oak has been debated to death, and there is a whole raft (haha) of literature on it, they should be pointed to the literature: – “have you thought of all this”? – and they say “Yes, and the oil is the key”. Then woot. Awesome.

A Scientific Revolution ensues and we all know what that’s like. (Or will).

Problem is, so many people come with their pine, without any regard to what has been already debated. I doubt that they’re pointed to the literature very often. And the cycle goes on and on, without any progress.

Your main thrust is a point well taken. Leadership would solve my central concern around debates that really don’t help the situation.

We’re in need of a very specific type of leader (and you certainly opened up a can of whoop-ass here).

Incorporation of all points of view – yes. I’ll accept that.

How to ensure there’s enough fertilizer for 100 flowers to bloom?

]]>